reMIX临界工作室十周年丨中国深圳

出品人：向玲 / Producer: Xiang Ling

编辑：石安，亓慧、庞任飞，宋林晨，张笑然 / Editor: Shi An, Qi Hui, Pang Renfei, Song Linchen, Zhang Xiaoran

reMIX 临界工作室十周年

专访陈忱 & Nicola Saladino

Special Interview for reMIX studio’s First Decade

__________

从北京到深圳

研究与实践并行

From Beijing to Shenzhen

Juxtaposition of Research And Practice

1. 如果简洁地总结 reMIX 临界十年来的反思与成长，您会作何回答？在十年展“TRACE_寻溯临界”里，最想向观众们表达的观点是什么？本次展览中，最满意的地方是什么？

Please briefly summarize reMIX’s reflections and growth over the past decade. In the “TRACE_Critical Exploration” ten-year exhibition, what viewpoints do you want to convey to the audience? What are you most satisfied with in this exhibition?

NS：reMIX 是一家跨学科、跨尺度的设计事务所，在我们的十年展“TRACE_寻溯临界”中，除了展示项目和设计外，梳理出办公室的发展历程亦同样重要。reMIX 的成长并非呈现出简单的线性发展，展览的标题“TRACE”反映了这一重叠积累的过程：展览的每一章皆在前一章的基础上所构建。该展览通过十年十个篇章复现 reMIX 从创立至今所经历的挑战与机遇、反思与成长。这些讨论在不同的项目中断续出现形成一条若隐若现的“轨迹”，并最终在更加综合性的项目中得以集中的体现。正是这些“轨迹”（TRACE）塑造了现在的我们。

事务所的名字“reMIX”，其本身就意味着“重组混合已有的元素，创造出新的类型”。福田中学项目是迄今为止，能够体现我们在建筑设计，以及建筑与景观、城市之间所关注的方方面面的绝佳实践。它让我们得以同时在建筑和城市两个尺度上进行思考。我们非常幸运，在恰当的时间遇到了合适的甲方，双方的合作非常顺利，因而能够在没有太多妥协的条件下去推动设计。

展览整体的布展充分呈现了开放、公共的理念，我们延续了之前在北京胡同临时装置和改造更新的理念。展览选址非常特别，位于深圳华侨城创意文化园内的一处暂时空置的零售空间，毗邻园区的步行主道，很多路人被展览的视觉和氛围所吸引，进到展场。这让我们能够与非设计专业的观众展开一系列有趣的对话。普通公众的反馈，以及他们对于展览作品的初始印象和真切理解，让我们有耳目一新之感。

NS:reMIX is an office that works across different disciplines and different scales. So rather than focusing only on the projects and the design work, it was also important to describe the path of the office in our ten-year exhibition. We have had a quite non-linear growth and the title of the exhibition “TRACE” reflects this process of building up knowledge: every chapter of the exhibition is the result of the traces left by the previous chapters. The exhibition shares our explorations and a series of successful and also unsuccessful steps that were important for our growth. What we are now is the result of all these steps.reMIX itself as a name is about creating a synthesis out of elements that perhaps are already existing. Futian high school is so far the best synthesis of everything we care in terms of architectural design, and in terms of the mix between architecture, landscape and urban design. This project has allowed us to operate both at the scale of architecture and the scale of the city. We were quite lucky to meet the right client at the right time so we were able to push our design agenda without too many compromises.One of the interesting features of our exhibition is that we brought our approach to temporary installations from Beijing to Shenzhen. We organized the exhibition inside a vacant shop in a quite busy pedestrian street next to a little plaza. Lots of passers-by were attracted in by the visual effect of the exhibition and sometimes we managed to establish interesting discussions with this audience, which is not professional. It was refreshing to have impressions from the general public and see what they would actually understand at first sight of an architectural project.

▼TRACE_寻溯临界｜reMIX 十年展，深圳，TRACE ｜reMIX 10th Anniversary Exhibition

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2. 十年展的研讨会中“建筑与教育：我们如何设计新的公共性”“实践与研究并行：独立事务所如何在激流中国中成长”“再议景观都市主义：跨尺度设计方法如何塑造适应性城市”这三个议题是如何确定下来的？

How were the three topics of the symposium determined?

CC：2022 年我们从北京搬到深圳，那个时候 reMIX 差不多快 10 岁了，于是借着 reMIX“南下”这一契机，我们计划办一个十年展，取名 reMIX X。

CC:In 2022, we moved from Beijing to Shenzhen. At that time, reMIX was almost 10 years old. Taking advantage of reMIX’s “southward journey,” we planned a ten-year exhibition called reMIX X.

▼事务所创立地图（展览：原点 reMIX 是谁），map of preMIX (WHERE DOES reMIX COME FROM?)

▼reMIX 深圳办公环境，reMIX Shenzhen office

▼reMIX 团队合照，reMIX team

当时我们的想法非常简单，即是在华侨城创意园的工作室中陈列一些我们以往的模型，精选出十年十个项目，既是十年展，又是暖房趴。但由于疫情的原因，这件事被搁置了。半年之后，福田中学面临交付，我们邀请朱竞翔老师来为 reMIX 撰写文章。他提议我们可以将十年这个节点转化为定义“我们是谁”的重要契机，将福田中学与我们的其他实践作品放置在一起，引发更多的讨论，与此同时，在这个过程中，也引导我们去反思、去思辨，为下一个十年做好准备。

从北京来到深圳之后，我们发现 reMIX 前几年的历史仿佛遗失了：对于深圳的朋友来说，reMIX 是一家“学校专业户”。这固然是一种好的“误读”，因为学校类型确实是我们特别感兴趣的，然而我们对成为“专业户”这件事情非常警醒，因为探索新类型，不断寻求新挑战，才是真正属于“临界”的常态。

Our initial idea was quite simple: to display some of our past models in the studio at OCT Creative Park, selecting ten projects from the past ten years. It was meant to be both a ten-year retrospective and a warm-up party. However, due to the pandemic, this plan was put on hold. Six months later, as Futian High School Campus neared completion, we invited Professor Zhu Jingxiang to write an article about reMIX. He suggested transforming the ten-year milestone into a significant opportunity to define “who we are.” This involved placing Futian High School Campus alongside our other projects to spark more discussions and, at the same time, guiding us to reflect, speculate, and prepare for the next decade. After moving from Beijing to Shenzhen, we realized that the history of reMIX in the previous years seemed to have been lost. For friends in Shenzhen, reMIX was seen as a “specialist in school design.” While this was a good “misinterpretation” because we are indeed particularly interested in educational projects, but we were also very aware of becoming “pros” because exploring new types and constantly seeking new challenges is the true norm for being “critical.”

▼reMIX 部分校园设计作品，part of the school design projects of reMIX

因此我们希望用另外两个关键词来加以平衡，也就是“独立事务所如何在激流中国中成长”以及“再议景观都市主义”。

对于独立事务所来说，在快速项目推进的过程中，想要做到实践与研究并行，实际上是非常矛盾的。在极为紧张的项目周期中，输出一些以往其他时间所做的研究，和在充足的周期中边做研究边做项目，这种可能是独立事务所在中国所需呈现的状态，这个问题我们觉得十分值得被讨论。

第三个关键词“景观都市主义”在我们不同尺度和不同类型的项目中都有意地持续进行着讨论和研究，是我们三位创始合伙人创立 reMIX 时的共识，在很大程度上也代表着 reMIX 的基因。

然而对于 reMIX 究竟是不是一家“景观都市主义”的事务所，实际上我们也在十分谨慎地探讨这个问题。当面对真正的市场以及真正的实践环境时，我们也会对其有一些批判和修正。十年之后，景观都市主义是否迎来了一个“好时机”？或者说它处于“成熟期”“上升期”还是已经衰落了呢？我们觉得这是极具讨论意义的。

Therefore, we hope to balance this with two other key phrases, “Praxis: How can an independent design studio strive in dynamic China?” “On Landscape Urbanism: How can trans-scalar approaches shape our adaptive cities?”

For an independent design studio, achieving a balance between practice and research during rapid project development is inherently contradictory. In the extremely tight project cycles, it is challenging to integrate research conducted at other times and to simultaneously conduct research while working on projects within ample time frames. This state, where independent firms need to present both practical work and ongoing research, is a topic we believe is worth discussing in the context of China.

The third key phrase, “Landscape Urbanism,” has been a continuous topic of discussion and research across various scales and project types since the inception of reMIX by our three founding partners. It largely represents the genetic makeup of reMIX.

However, we are also cautiously exploring whether reMIX is truly a “Landscape Urbanism” studio. When facing the real market and practical environments, we also critique and make adjustments. Ten years later, is Landscape Urbanism experiencing a “golden age”? Is it in a “maturation phase,” a “growth phase,” or has it already declined? We believe these questions are highly discussable.

▼reMIX 作品时间线，timeline of reMIX’sworks

▼reMIX 部分代表作品，part of works by reMIX

3. 在展览第二部分“伊始”中，提出在 reMIX 创立之初经历了一段时间的研究、教学过程，这种理论的探索与积累对 reMIX 后期的实践有什么影响？理论如何转化为 reMIX 实践的工具？

In the second chapter of the exhibition, “Beginning,” you mentioned going through a period of research and teaching at the inception of reMIX. How did this theoretical exploration and accumulation influence your later practice? How did theory transform into tools for your practice?

NS：从创立至今，我们一直对于跨专业、跨尺度的城市议题有着浓厚的兴趣。但作为一家年轻的设计事务所，初始阶段我们很难获得这种项目的实践机会。当时，我们只能经过一系列研究、教学和合作，延续对景观都市主义的探讨，研究与打磨参数化分析与设计框架在大尺度项目的应用。这些研究探索让我们明白，任何项目应被看作是一个更大的系统的一个节点。不断积累的经验，使得后来我们在应对跨尺度和跨学科的项目时变得快速且高效。比如在深圳理工大学 SUAT 校园中，我们的设计不仅考虑了场地生态基础设施，构建动态韧性的边界，塑造积极的城市链接。

尽管在事务所的初始阶段，我们的实践和研究之间存在一定的脱节，但后者为我们提供了在设计时能够高效应对建筑与城市环境关系的有力工具。

NS:We have always been interested in the very large scale of the city, but as a young office, it was very hard for us at the beginning to operate at that scale. In a way, our urban research allowed us to understand how any project can have an impact within a larger system. We were training ourselves to work with complex systems, and that experience made us efficient and fast in jumping across different scales and tackle projects that imply a multi-disciplinary approach. For example, in our recent campus design for SUAT, there were lots of considerations about the infrastructural systems together with the creation of urban corridors that can connect an individual site to the functional mechanisms of the rest of the city. So even though at the beginning there was a big disconnection between our practice and our research, the latter gave us the tools to operate in the urban context efficiently.

▼编码自然，深圳理工大学中标方案，Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology Campus Design © 丝路视觉科技股份有限公司。点击这里查看更多，Click HERE for details。

CC：景观建筑师的兴趣会非常广泛，特别是对城市化背后诸如垃圾处理、水、能源等政策层面无形的问题的讨论是一种常态。这些问题实际上，在深层次影响着我们整个城市空间的生产以及建筑的设计，我认为非常重要。

以景观都市主义为研究线索，使得我们能够怀着持续的兴趣，通过不同的形式，展开具有一定深度的讨论。比如 2013 年我在哈佛 GSD 就读时的学生作业“重叠城市”，其实就是在讨论能源问题。倘若以后我们不再依赖化石能源，而是去接纳新能源，这将会对我们的城市规划、城市设计，以及建筑和景观设计产生深层次的影响。

当时我提出了一种组团的能源基础设施模式，以及探讨它与水、景、林地如何构成城市。在深圳理工大学项目中，我们为这种关于能源的讨论增添了更多的因素，比如洪涝灾害等等，最后我们提出一种模块化的聚落模式，以水的通道地表径流作为不同聚落组团之间的绿廊。它的原型是经由长时间高度专注的研究以及跨专业研究而形成的。在时间紧张的竞赛中，迅速启用一个过往可能研究过的原型，为我们这种超小团队驾驭超大项目奠定了基础。

CC:Landscape architects often have a wide range of interests, especially in discussing intangible issues at the policy level behind urbanization, such as waste management, water, energy, and so on. These issues actually have a profound impact on the production of our entire urban space and the design of buildings. I believe they are very important.

Using Landscape Urbanism as a research framework allows us to maintain a sustained interest and engage in discussions with a certain depth through different forms. For example, my student project “The Overlapped City” at Harvard GSD in 2013 was essentially discussing energy issues. If we no longer rely on fossil fuels in the future but embrace new energy sources, it will deeply impact our urban planning, urban design, as well as architecture and landscape design.

At that time, I proposed a clustered energy infrastructure model and discussed how it interacts with water, parks, and green corridors to form a city. In the project at Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology (SUAT), we added more factors to this energy discussion, such as flood mitigation, etc. Ultimately, we proposed a modular settlement pattern, using water channels’ surface runoff as green corridors between different clusters. It was developed through long-term and highly focused research as well as interdisciplinary studies. In a time-constrained competition, quickly deploying a prototype that we might have studied before laid the foundation for our small team to handle large projects effectively.

▼重叠城市，Overlapped city

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4. 从北京到深圳，从私人业主、小尺度、旧城改造提升类型到政府甲方、大尺度的公建教育项目，在落地过程中想必会面临着不同的困难。项目落地过程中你们经历的最艰难的挑战是什么？

From Beijing to Shenzhen, from private owners and small-scale, old city renovation projects to government clients and large-scale public educational projects, you must have faced different challenges in the implementation process. What was the most difficult challenge you faced in the project implementation process?

NS：不同类型与尺度的项目存在不同挑战。对于较小的私人委托项目，我们所面临的挑战更多在于与非专业人士的客户沟通。有时我们花费大量时间引导设计决策，有时还得应对水平不一的施工方，从而迫使我们采用“低技”的设计策略，且设计过程中存在诸多不确定性。但总体而言，尽管有这些限制，我们始终坚信，每个人都在尽全力争取设计落地的最佳状态。

在大型项目中，我们逐渐发觉设计本身的问题，仅仅是项目整体的一部分。最大的挑战不只出现在设计阶段，施工阶段更是如此，需要与多方来回博弈。很多时候，我们会认识到自己在应对这些沟通时有所欠缺，不断地去学习如何预防问题和及时止损。富有经验的建筑师们，或许能够找到这种沟通的捷径，引导各方跟随设计师的思路。但在许多情况下，建筑师或许过于天真，太多“陷阱”都可能会使我们丧失对项目的整体把控。

NS: Different types of projects and different scales have different challenges. For smaller private commissions, our challenges were more related to the fact that most of our clients were not professionals. Sometimes we had to spend a lot of time guiding them through the decision-making process. We were also facing contractors that were not particularly skilful, so we had to work with very low-tech design solutions. There were a lot of uncertainties in the design process as well. But in general, despite all these limitations, we always had the feeling that everybody involved in the project was trying their best to achieve the best result.

When you do larger projects, instead, you realize how design issues are just a fragment of a much bigger picture. The biggest challenges came during the project development and even more during construction, when we had regular meetings with different parties and their agendas were sometimes deeply contrasting with our design goals. Many times we felt that architects are not trained enough to face this type of interactions, and we had to learn the hard way how to prevent problems and control damage. With experience, one designer can probably find those few moments in the process where we have enough leverage to force all the other parties to follow our lead. But in many cases, we were perhaps a bit too naive, and there were too many sharks around us, so we ended up losing control.

▼煤院新生，co(al)-yard©夏至

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▼凹透院，Re-fracted©陈鑫星

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▼茶儿胡同 reMIX 北京办公室改造，reMIX – Cha’er 3

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公共项目的竞赛有着积极的一面，它允许设计师去“冒险”。公开竞赛为我们提供了独立思考、无需妥协地表达自己的想法，呈现更具先锋与挑战性的设计。相比于小项目漫长的沟通和周旋，竞赛使得我们得以与不同领域的专家交流探讨，对于我们来说这是一种全新的体验。

我们也开始探寻一些学校里未教授的工具和方法。优秀的设计师，需要具备设计以外的诸多技能，比如沟通博弈的能力。这样才能确保项目实施过程中，能够保持初始设计理念的品质。

Public projects, though, also have a positive side: you usually get the commission through a bidding and in the competition stage the design can be more free and you can express your ideas without compromises. Working through competitions for us was also refreshing because after dealing with so many clients with personal struggles and emotional attachments to the project, we were finally facing professional clients that talked the same design language. We are now probably getting to learn new tools which are not usually taught in school. Great designers also need to develop some skills of negotiation and other types of skills that are not necessarily related to design to make sure that the implementation follows the quality of the initial design ideas.

▼起伏•连接，前海石景观岛国际竞赛，FluXtuation

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▼东莞#33 艺术小镇，33 Art District

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5. 在过去十年里，景观都市主义主张有哪些改变与发展？景观、建筑界限的模糊，从建筑师的角度来说，是否意味着需要负责更多的工作？

What changes and developments have occurred in landscape urbanism advocacy over the past decade? As the boundaries between landscape and architecture blur, from an architect’s perspective, does this imply a need for more responsibilities?

CC：reMIX 首次在设计项目中运用“景观都市主义”的论述，大约是在 2015 年东莞旧街后工业园区改造之时。那时我们第一次向业主提出了“棕地修复”以及“雨洪管理”的概念，这些概念在欧美国家已然成为了一种共识，甚至还有相关立法。但对那时候的国内业主而言，还是一个新事物。

到了 2021 年，当我们中标深圳理工大学项目并再度探讨这些问题时，我们的切身体会是国内的观念已经发生了很大的变化，“景观都市主义”或许真正抵达了一个极为适宜且有施展空间的状态。

在国内，生态文明建设、棕地污染问题、水资源短缺，乃至气候的变化，都已成为当下全社会的共识，业主的设计管理部门会有不同专业的设计顾问参与到整个项目的决策之中。如今我们再去推进项目会更容易沟通，也更具备条件去实施。

CC: Our first application of the “Landscape Urbanism” methodology in a design project was around 2015 during the transformation of the Dongguan Old Street Industrial Park. It was then that we introduced concepts like “brownfield restoration” and “storm water management” to the client for the first time. While these concepts were already widely accepted in Europe and the United States, with corresponding legislation in place, they were still novel to domestic clients at that time.

By 2021, when we successfully bid for the Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology project and revisited these issues, we noticed a significant shift in domestic perceptions. “Landscape Urbanism” had perhaps reached a state in China that was highly conducive and allowed ample room for implementation.

In China, topics such as ecological civilization construction, brownfield pollution, water scarcity, and climate change have become societal consensuses. Design and management departments of clients now engage with various professional design consultants in project decision-making. This evolution makes communication and project implementation easier and more feasible today, given the increased readiness and understanding to tackle these issues.

▼编码自然，深圳理工大学中标方案，Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology Campus Design© 丝路视觉科技股份有限公司。点击这里查看更多，Click HERE for details。

从方案设计的角度而言，我们经常打破边界、跨越红线进行思考。对我们而言，这种做法并未增加过多工作量，相反，它反而是激发场地潜质，唤醒场地力量极为重要的一点，并且也更利于发挥出多层级、系统性设计对于整个场地的干预作用。这样的工作方法，在某种程度上其实缓解了我们的创作压力。

能更好地解读和激活场地中原本就隐含存在的自然力量时，建筑师所做的事情就能变得可以更加谦逊、适度。然而对业主来说，实则增加了项目管理和项目沟通的工作量，这会带来巨大的不确定性，所以在早期我们缺乏项目经验时，很难说服业主与我们共同承担这样的风险。

深圳在这方面较为领先，不同的职能部门、城市设计主管部门始终保持紧密沟通的状态。跨越红线去思考设计，几乎已经成为了一种“标配”。我们期待公共建筑的设计，能够成为梳理城市片区的契机，这也是我们高度认同的做法。

在项目落地的过程中也有许多有趣的收获。比如深圳理工大学是我们迄今为止，唯一一次真正做到与水务部门进行深层次沟通的项目。它的场地里面有一个水库，每一个设计团队的竞赛方案都必须涉及景观改造，同时保留它的防洪功能。我们在这方面做了更多的工作，为整个大学打造了一个多级弹性，浅表海绵校园系统。对于水务局而言，我们为深圳乃至全国树立了一个很好的样板。但对于学校而言，水安全是否会受到威胁呢？这个过程涉及到一个平衡的问题，在更加扎实和鲜活的人员关系中，在不同代表方的博弈中，我们看到了景观都市主义能够落地的真实性和可操作性。

From a design perspective, we often cross boundaries and push beyond established limits in our thinking. This approach doesn’t necessarily add extra workload for us; instead, it unleashes the potential of the site, which is crucial, and enables us to implement multi-level, systematic design interventions across the entire area. In fact, this method somewhat alleviates our creative pressure.

When architects can effectively interpret and activate the innate natural forces within a site, their work becomes more humble and appropriate. However, for clients, this approach entails increased project management and communication efforts, leading to significant uncertainties. Convincing clients to share such risks with us was challenging, especially when our project experience was limited in the early days.

Shenzhen is leading the way in this regard, with different functional departments and urban design authorities maintaining close communication. Thinking beyond traditional constraints has almost become a standard practice. We aspire to see public building designs that serve as opportunities to organize urban areas, a practice we strongly support.

The project implementation process has yielded many interesting insights. For instance, Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology Campus was the only project where we engaged in in-depth communication with the water department. The site includes a reservoir, and every design team’s competition proposal had to address landscape transformation while maintaining its flood control functionality. We invested more effort in creating a multi-level resilient campus system with a shallow sponge system. This set a positive example for Shenzhen and the entire country in the eyes of water authorities. However, concerns about water safety for the school arose. This process required a delicate balance. Through stronger and more dynamic relationships and negotiations among various stakeholders, we witnessed the practicality and feasibility of implementing Landscape Urbanism principles.

▼深圳理工大学模型，Model of the Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology Campus Design

▼建设中的深圳理工大学，Shenzhen Universityof Advanced Technology Campus under construction

深耕教育建筑类型

Delve into Educational Architecture

6.

福田中学校园是深圳规模最大的高密度寄宿制学校，建成后收到了哪些反馈？你们觉得哪些地方可以做得更好？

NS：在福田中学里，“空中社交圈”（THE LOOP）是设计的其中一个关键元素。它不只是一个高效的交通体系，也并非是一个简单的连廊系统，而是一个在教学楼的 6-7 层间上下起伏，由楼梯、坡道、架空层、露天剧场、屋面花园等串联起来的连贯社交空间体系。它连接了校园高区中一系列最为公共的使用功能，这一系列非正式社交空间和创新启发式的学习空间，鼓励师生之间的交流、共享与碰撞随时随地自然发生。校园投入使用已经接近半年，学生们不断地探索利用这些空间，甚至挖掘新的可能性，这让我们感到很欣慰。

在高密度校园中，我们希望尽可能地为学生创造出开阔的视觉通廊。整体建筑形态的设计最大限度地扩大朝向开阔的中心公园和远方起伏的 CBD 天际线，学生不再与城市隔绝，而是成为周边都市的积极观察者。我们曾多次在日落时分来到这里，看到很多学生在阳台和屋顶露台上放松心情。

另一个让我们倍感欣喜的地方是校园的主入口广场。这个空间由学校归还给社区，如今成为了非常受欢迎的公共社交空间，周边市民和学生们在这里产生了多样互动。

在室内设计方面，可以加以改进。在设计过程中，我们与校方密切合作，并得到了丰富的反馈，由于周期紧迫，后期的整合设计有所欠缺。这可能是一些遗憾之处，希望在未来我们可以做得更好。

NS:One of the key elements of our design was “the loop”: a system of small and medium scale public spaces that are visually interconnected and provide different experiences with the idea that students can activate them in multiple ways. There are outdoor terraces, semi-outdoor stepped areas for people to have a presentation or even run a class, other spaces for resting, social interaction and informal sport activities. We designed them in a way that they could be as flexible as possible and be reconfigured for specific uses. We felt it was important to give students the chance to look for the type of space they are more comfortable with, rather than imposing the usual centralized system. And we were very happy to see after a few months from the opening that all these nodes are very active: the students really made the best use out of them. They are full of activities and life and we realized our design was understood without the need of instructions or any formal set of rules.

In such a very high-density campus we also needed to find a visual escape. The whole massing was shaped in a way to provide as many views as possible towards the park and open the school towards the outside, with the goal of giving students a connection, even if just visual, with the rest of the city. A few times we visited the school during sunset and we found so many students on the balconies and on the roof terraces overlooking the CBD, having a drink or enjoying the panorama. Our view strategy in a way generated the peaceful conditions for students to relax and recharge their batteries.

Another happy moment was to see the entrance plaza, which was somehow donated by the school to the neighbourhood, become a popular social space: at any time of the day there are a lot of neighbours occupying it and they have a quite close interaction with the students.

As for things that could be improved, perhaps we could have followed up better on the soft decoration. During the design process we had a very close dialogue with the headmaster and some of the teachers and we received a lot of inputs from their side that enriched our design. In the final stages of construction, because of lack of time, we didn’t really establish a clear framework for how in the future new elements could be integrated in the design. The art teacher took our role in designing some of these soft decorations and we feel it’s a bit of a pity that they are not so well aligned to our design language. Perhaps we could have done a better job, but it was never clearly discussed how we could keep working on it after the project was delivered.

▼福田中学校园，Futian High School Campus© 胡康榆

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7. 事务所现在正在进行的莲花小学校园项目也采用了“高密度校园”的设计手法，能否与我们分享莲花小学校园更多的情况？

Another school project, Lianhua Primary School, also adopts the “high-density campus” design approach. Could you share more details about this project?

CC：“高密度校园”是建筑师所面临的一种条件，而非一种设计方法，在不同的项目中我们的回应各不相同，这正是我们特别喜欢做学校的原因。

跟福田中学相比，莲花小学的规模有很大差异，其场地条件甚至更为极限。就设计过程本身而言，福田中学更多的是强调集体聚落的呈现，因而每一栋建筑的设计可以相对更放松，精彩之处存在于不同建筑之间的“关系”之中，独特的建筑串联方式定义了独特的空间体验。

莲花小学是极为紧凑的单栋建筑，所以我们更关注建筑本身的体型策略、竖向设计以及内部的交通体系。在一个月的竞赛创作周期里，我们强烈地感受到，当建筑之间的“关系”不再处于主要地位时，对建筑以及室内元素要求就会更高。

教育建筑回应的一个重要参数是年龄。运动与社交空间的植入对我们来说是一个共识，公共空间体系在我们的任何一个项目中都极为重要。福田中学更像是一个大学校园；但是莲花小学的孩子们年龄都很小，所以设计对于运动以及社交空间的植入就会更显调皮有趣，希望能够模糊上学与游玩之间的体验。我们也非常强调路径的多样性，只不过这一点在每个项目中的表现形式也是特别不一样的。

CC: “High-density campus” is a condition architects often encounter rather than a specific design method. Our responses vary across different projects, which is why we particularly enjoy working on schools.

Compared to Futian High School Campus, Lianhua Primary School differs significantly in scale, with even more challenging site conditions. In terms of the design process itself, Futian High School Campus emphasizes the presentation of a collective settlement, allowing for relatively relaxed designs for each building. The brilliance lies in the “relationships” between different buildings, and the unique way they connect defines a distinctive spatial experience.

Lianhua Primary School is a highly compact single-building structure, so we focused more on the building’s form strategies, vertical design, and internal circulation system. During the intense one-month competition creative period, we strongly felt that when the “relationships” between buildings are not the primary focus, the demands on architecture and interior elements become higher.

On another note, an important parameter that educational buildings respond to is age. The integration of sports and social spaces is a consensus for us, as the public space system is crucial in any of our projects. Futian High School Campus resembles a university campus; however, the children at Lianhua Primary School are quite young, so the design’s integration of sports and social spaces takes on a playful and interesting tone, aiming to blur the line between learning and playing experiences. We also emphasize the diversity of pathways, although this manifests uniquely in each project.

▼重叠校园：莲花小学校园设计，The Overlapped Campus: Lianhua Primary School

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8. 在校园设计中，关于“安全第一”与“共享开放”的问题，你们如何看待学校与城市社区之间的互动与共享资源的可能性？如何平衡公共设施的利用率和对社区开放的程度？学校可以通过哪些方式反哺社区，实现资源共享的可行性有多大？

In campus design, you mentioned the issues of “safety first” and “shared openness.” How do you view the interaction between schools and social environment and the potential for sharing resources? How do you balance the utilization rate of public facilities and the degree of openness to the community? What are the feasible ways for schools to feed the community and achieve resource sharing?

NS：对中国的学校来说，“安全性”和“开放性”是非常重要的议题。传统校园设计与城市环境相对隔绝，校内很多文体设施资源在周末或假期会被闲置。在深圳，许多学校位于人口密集的社区，如果这些设施可以实现分时共享，那么将会对周边社区产生诸多有益影响。

对于福田中学而言，在初始阶段，我们就在学校的沿街面造就了一个与众不同的城市界面：学校沿主干道的边界不再是围墙，而是一个透明而有吸引力的界面，让公众能够更多地与校园产生互动。这种布局创造出三种可能的情景：

- 上课期间，只有学生从校园内部进入，使用文体设施。

- 周末期间，文化体验设施可面向公众开放，或由独立机构进行管理。

- 最有趣的当属第三种情况，即混合模式：学生能够从内部进入，而公众可以直接从街道进入社会门厅，进而通向一系列文体设施。两个群体分别设有不同的交通流线，面向城市和校园内部的双门厅设计，使得分时共享可以便捷发生，同时规避安全隐患。对于学生而言，这种混合模式不仅有趣，而且非常有益。

如今，越来越多的中国学校正在发生理念的转变，不再将分数视为唯一重点，而是注重培养学生更为全面的素质。作为未来社会的中坚力量，让孩子们与城市接触非常重要，我们应该尽可能多地促进学校与城市的互动。

NS:This is a very important topic for Chinese schools because traditionally they are isolated from their urban context and there are a lot of resources left underused, especially in the weekends or during the holidays. In Shenzhen, many schools are located in densely populated neighbourhoods so it would be very beneficial for the neighbours to be able to access some of these facilities, but that possibility is closely related to how the school is managed.

In the case of Futian, the idea of creating a transparent interface with the street and making facilities more accessible for the public came at the very beginning. We designed a double circulation system that allows students to access all the sport and cultural facilities from one side and the public from the other. Such layout allows three possible scenarios:

– one scenario is that the school operates in the isolated mode: only students have access from the inside

– another one is during the weekends, when the facilities can be rented or can be run by independent users

– the most interesting scenario is the third one, which is a mix: the students can access some of the spaces from the inside, other audiences have their access directly from the street. The spatial layout is designed in a way that the access to the two floors can be controlled so the two crowds interact through visual connections, but their circulations are segregated, without safety concerns. This type of hybrid mode can be very interesting and quite beneficial for the students as well.

Nowadays more and more Chinese schools are moving away from the idea of prioritizing scores towards a model that cultivates more well-rounded citizens. High school students will become active citizens once they graduate so it is important for them to get in touch with the rest of the city and I believe we should promote as many interactions as possible with external visitors.

▼福田中学校园，Futian High School Campus© 胡康榆 / 张超

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▼宿舍架空层：望向 CBD 天际线，stilt floor in the dorm tower with a view to the CBD© 胡康榆

CC：共享开放，实则创造了一次极为重要的契机，但它确实远远超出单纯设计的范畴。在不同学校的深化过程中，我们碰到过持有不同观念、不同保守程度的校方，部分校方可能更多考虑的是风险和管理负担，而福田中学的校长看到的更多是机遇，以及通过更为精细化的设计来解决问题的可能性。

“高密度校园”存在着非常多的争议。比如，是不是每一个校园都需要 400 米田径场和游泳馆呢？如果真正实现了资源共享，或许下一代的校园以及其他公共设施将能够真正实现减配，高空置率低利用效率的问题也能得以解决。

或许 10 年以后，它将会深层次地影响城市规划的思路，减少重复的设计，这其实是真正的低碳设计。长远来看，这是极为重要的做法，在任何一个项目中，我们都会主动地去推动。

福田中学交付之后，我们也看到了一些非常具体的问题，比如我们归还给城市的 1000 平米校园主入口广场，应该由谁负责清扫？体育文体设施的学生门厅和社会门厅的“一门两开”，门锁该如何安装？这些小细节所要求的项目管理精细化程度相当高，目前很多公共建筑中或许很难完美解决。但我们相信这会是空间革命的第一步，未来任重道远。

CC: Shared openness creates a highly important opportunity, yet it extends far beyond the scope of pure design. During the deepening process of different schools, we encountered administrations with varying degrees of conservatism and different viewpoints. Some administrations may focus more on risks and management burdens, while the principal of Futian High School Campus sees more opportunities and the potential to solve problems through more refined design.

The concept of a “high-density campus” is highly controversial. For instance, does every campus really need a 400-meter track and a swimming pool? If resource sharing is truly achieved, the next generation of campuses and other public facilities might actually be able to achieve downsizing, thereby addressing issues of high vacancy rates and low utilization efficiency.

Perhaps in 10 years, this approach will profoundly influence urban planning, reducing repetitive designs, which is essentially true low-carbon design. In the long run, this is an extremely important practice that we actively promote in every project.

After the delivery of Futian High School Campus, we also observed some very specific issues. For example, who is responsible for cleaning the 1000-square-meter main entrance plaza returned to the city? How should the locks be installed on the “one door, two openings” for the student and public entrances of the sports and cultural facilities? These small details require a high degree of project management precision, which might be challenging to achieve perfectly in many current public buildings. However, we believe this is the first step towards a spatial revolution, with a long road ahead.

▼福田中学校园校园入口：还给城市的广场 (清晨)，Futian High School Campus -entrance plaza (morning)© 张超

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▼通透的城市界面，permeable urban interface© 胡康榆

9. 您提到了教育理念的落后、规范的滞后以及项目管理模式对学校设计的影响。在您看来，应该如何改变当前的设计规范和项目管理方式，以促进更具创新性和适应性的学校设计？

In your opinion, how should current design standards and project management methods be changed to promote more innovative and adaptive school designs?

NS: 在过往的校园设计中，我们时常遇到两种情况。一种是学校刚建成，尚无管理团队，学校的设计需求须由教育局或其他政府机构定制。如此一来，项目往往会变得非常泛化，最终结果也会呈现出标准化的状态，且缺乏趣味性。另一种是校方参与度很高，这时便会催生出非常有趣的结果。比如在福田中学项目中，学校的意见的确使最终的设计更为丰富。

我们也期望把在不同校园项目中获取的经验汇集整合，成为未来校园设计的原型。我们现在参与的“深圳南山百校焕新计划”，它为建筑师们搭建了一个交流平台，整个设计过程均由专家小组指导。除了拟定任务书外，专家小组还会协助构建设计师与学校以及社区的对话平台，使项目更具落地性。这种方法非常高效，避免了建筑师与非专业人士之间的无效沟通，并在施工阶段助力建筑师保障设计的完整性与设计质量。

“深圳南山百校焕新计划”意在探索更多未来校园设计的可能性，在此过程中，众多建筑师分享彼此的经验，这种分享促成更多的集体设计智慧，帮助我们未来做出更好的决策，并借鉴其他类似项目的经验，去解决特定问题。

NS:In our experience of school design, we often meet two extreme cases. In the first one, the school is new and there is no management yet, so the educational bureau or other government agencies have to take care of the definition of the program. In this situation, it becomes usually generic, and the final result is very standard and not so interesting.

The other extreme is when there is a headmaster with very personal ideas. Sometimes it can be interesting – for example, in the case of Futian, the inputs from the school really made the final design richer, but sometimes I feel there is a bit of a misunderstanding about what the role of the school management in the long-term should be.

We feel that perhaps all these different experiences could be collected and synthesized into a model for future educational projects, which is similar to what is happening now in the campaign for 100 school renovations in Nanshan. It’s a big platform that is addressing 100 different schools, and the whole design process is guided by a panel of experts. The panel helps define the brief at the beginning, curates the dialogue with the school community to make it as constrictive as possible, and supports the designers through all the critical moments.

I think this type of mediation by a panel of people that are respected by all parties was very useful to skip the time-consuming process of educating non-professional clients and helped us protect the design during the construction phase.

The 100 projects are all testing different solutions, and we are all sharing our experiences with the other designers, so we are creating a sort of collective knowledge that can help in the future make better decisions and address specific problems looking at the experience of other similar projects.

▼深圳南山百校焕新计划，学府一小，100 school renovations in NanshanXuefu frist primary school

▼香港科技大学广州校区红鸟创客空间，Red Bird Maker Space, HKUST(GZ)© 张超

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▼上海德法学校，Eurocampus

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reMIX 的关键词 Keywords of reMIX10.您提过喜欢粗犷的材料，理由是什么呢？您如何看待材料？

Why you prefer raw materials, and how you approach material selection?

NS：我们的材料策略建立在“对比”之上。在 reMIX 的设计中，经常会出现精致和粗犷的对比，这或许源自我们早期项目中与技术水平不够娴熟的施工方打交道的经验，促使我们不得不学会如何运用“低技”的方式解决问题。

随着经验的不断累积，我们逐渐认识到，在更大规模的项目中，同样存在着无法完全控制施工质量的限制。因此，我们通常会采取抓大放小的策略，对某些区域进行严格控制。粗犷的材料让我们的项目拥有了更高的容错率。

精致与粗犷之间的对比也因此成为了我们设计语言中重要的组成部分。在改造项目中，新旧的对比会自然发生。在新建项目中，我们则更加注重一些突出的元素，并在不同元素之间创造出连贯组合，而非简单地将它们连接。

NS:Our material strategy is usually based on playing a contrast. Often we have areas that are highly refined and areas that are very rough. Perhaps it comes from our experience in the very early projects where we had to deal with not very skillful contractors. And so we had to learn in a way how to operate with low-tech types of solutions.

Then we realized that in bigger projects, there are similar constraints, that you cannot control the quality in the construction process. So it’s often a sort of strategy to have a few areas that are really highly controlled and other areas where the design strategy allows a higher tolerance. Using this sort of rough material strategy, we have a higher degree of acceptance of errors.

This contrast between rough and refined is often part of our language. In the historical context, it was natural to make a contrast between the old and the new. But in the new projects, it is more about a few standing out elements and a strategy that creates a coherent combination instead of a collage of different solutions. Playing contrast is about a system that has both extremes within a consistent language.

▼WWS 艺术社区，W(an)W(an)S(hu)©Federico Ruberto

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11. 你曾提过事务所的作品有两个关键词重复出现：一个是“关系”、一个是“体验”。如今关键词是否发生了改变？

Two keywords repetitively show in your works: one is relationships, and the other is experience. Have these keywords changed now?

CC：我们的关键词究竟有哪些呢？在长达一个月颇为激烈的展览准备过程中，也在逐渐明晰。对于 reMIX 而言，我们并没有明显的设计语言，也不希望被贴上这样的标签。

这次十周年的展览，我们对 30 个项目进行了梳理，到最后我们发现确实有七八个关键词不断重复出现。譬如在 30 个项目里面，有 14 个都提到了“动线”一词，这的确印证我们对于人在建筑中体验的重视程度。人进入建筑时的心理序列，对我们而言，它与建筑单体的形式同等重要，甚至更为重要。

而说到“关系”，我想可能在校园建筑中体现的更为突出。比如福田中学和莲花小学的尺度不同，故而自然而然就多出了一层关系：建筑物之间的关系，无论是动线组织、体型错落、或其之间的空间，对我们而言比一个单体的体型、立面等具体设计来的甚至要更重要一些。在深圳理工大学中，这种关系则体现在工整高效的建筑模块和富饶多变的自然基底之间的对话上。

其他的关键词或许会涉及更多的方面，比如新与旧的问题。在改造项目中，新和旧之间应该产生怎样的对话？尤其是在面临公共项目改造时，除了体验上的关系，可能还会涉及到技术上的介入关系。

另一个关键词便是“地形”。2015 年，我们做的巴米扬文化中心设计竞赛以及前海石公园设计竞赛，对 reMIX 的工作方法和设计原则起到了决定性的作用。当时的“地形”可能是真正的景观地形，到了后来，比如在高密度的校园设计中，我们实际上是运用地景的理念来处理建筑的体量和层次。

CC: What are our keywords? During the intense month-long preparation for the exhibition, these themes gradually became clearer. For reMIX, we don’t have a distinct design language, nor do we wish to be labelled with one.

For this tenth-anniversary exhibition, we reviewed 30 projects and found that seven or eight keywords kept recurring. For example, in 14 of the 30 projects, the term “circulation” was mentioned, which confirms our emphasis on the human experience within the architecture. The psychological sequence of entering a building is as important to us as the form of the building itself.

“Relationship” is a concept that is particularly important for school campus. The relationship among multiple programmatic parts – the connections, the spaces in-between – are more important than the individual buildings. This is specially true, when you compare Futian Campus to Lianhua Primary School. In the Shenzhen University of Advanced Technology project, this relationship is reflected in the dialogue between the orderly, efficient building modules and the rich, varied natural landscape.

Other keywords might involve broader aspects, such as the relationship between the new and the old. In renovation projects, what kind of dialogue should occur between the new and the old? Especially when dealing with public project renovations, besides experiential relationships, there may also be technical intervention relationships.

Another keyword is “topography.” In 2015, our designs for the Bamiyan Culture Center competition and the Qianhai Island Landscape Design competition had a decisive impact on reMIX’s working methods and design principles. At that time, “topography” might have referred to actual landscape topography, but later, for instance, in high-density campus designs, we applied landscape concepts to handle the building’s massing and layering.

▼巴米扬文化中心，Con-Cave: Bamiyan Culture Center

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▼2011ASLA 学生奖通用设计荣誉奖: 垂直领土，ASLA 2011 Student Honor Award: Vertical Territories

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还有一个关键词便是“原型 prototype”。在这次展览中，我们发现有三分之一的项目都涉及到这一点，“原型”乃是跨尺度设计的关键所在，也就是说，如何通过一个极小的单元去定义一个更大的整体，这对我们而言特别重要。这些讨论向来都是 reMIX 极为重要且关切的议题，我们也期望能在未来的项目中再度呈现。

Another keyworld is “prototype.” In this exhibition, we found that one-third of the projects involve this concept. The “prototype” is crucial for cross-scale design, meaning how a very small unit can define a larger whole, which is particularly important to us. These discussions have always been significant and of great concern to reMIX, and we hope to present them again in future projects.

▼“聚·隔”苏州国际设计周展亭，Together Apart – 2020 Suzhou International Design Week Pavilion©夏至

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▼“城市呼吸”装置，深港城市建筑双城双年展，Urban Breathing, Shenzhen, Guangdong© UABB 胡康榆（Kangyu Hu）

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▼世界学院临展 2016 年北京设计周，TGS IN GONGMENKOU FOOD MARKET (2016 BJDW, BAITS)©reMIX studio

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▼transmutation 膳变空间装置，Transmutation©reMIX studio

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机遇即挑战

Opportunity is Challenge

12. 十年中，你们遇到过的最棘手的问题是什么？当时如何去克服的？有哪些收获？

What was the most challenging problem you encountered in the past decade, and how did you overcome it?

CC：十年过去，如何去定义我们的事务所？我们自己是谁？我们想往何处去？这可能是一个特别棘手、很难回答的问题，虽然它并非特别紧迫。我们时不时地就会对此产生警觉。

我们的关注点在于景观都市主义的跨界和跨尺度的设计，其实际上有赖于超大尺度的场地，历经长时间的研究和思考，最后方能稳步呈现。

然而，当超尺度与超紧迫的周期相逢之时，对于一个小的事务所来说，最大的机会或许反而成为摧毁它的最大挑战。当为了迎合新项目对我们提出的要求时，我们或许就会忘记之前对自己来说非常重要的方法。

我们的设计究竟能否够先过得了自己这一关，包括我们对于二维和三维设计的同步和整合，以及对图纸清晰度和精确性的要求，真的非常有挑战性。每隔两三个月我们就会重新复盘一番，目前并没有一个特别明确的解决方法，但至少保持警觉是我们可以做到的事情。

比方说，对于景观都市主义，其落地会历经层层挑战，但这些必经的设计过程让我们有了一个清晰可见、切实可感的认知。它为我们搭建了一个接触不同部门专家的平台，因而这其实也是一个建立自信的过程。我们从来不后悔拥有这样的一个机会，因为它从根本上印证了我们的理论分支是能够被实践所支撑的。

CC: How do we define our firm after ten years? Who are we, and where do we want to go? These questions, while not particularly urgent, are especially tricky and difficult to answer. We are constantly aware of these concerns. Our focus is on the interdisciplinary and cross-scale design of landscape urbanism, which relies on large-scale sites and extensive research and contemplation to be steadily realized.

However, when large scale meets extremely tight timelines, the greatest opportunity for a small firm can become its biggest challenge. In trying to meet the demands of new projects, we may forget the methods that were once very important to us.

Can our design meet our own standards, including the synchronization and integration of two-dimensional and three-dimensional design, and the clarity and precision of our drawings? This is indeed very challenging. Every few months, we review our progress. Although we don’t have a definitive solution yet, staying alert is something we can certainly do.

For example, the implementation of landscape urbanism faces multiple challenges, but these necessary design processes give us a clear and tangible understanding. They provide us with a platform to engage with experts from different departments, thus also building our confidence. We have never regretted having such opportunities because they fundamentally confirm that our theoretical branches can be supported by practice.

▼山西深山墕山野公园及度假酒店，Shenshanyan Resort

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13.下一个十年，您们想要挑战什么方向？有什么样的目标？

What direction you want to challenge in the next decade, and what are your goals?

NS: 说实话，我们当下尚未有非常明晰的答案。过去的十年对我们来说，是一个探索不同方向的阶段。

在下一个十年，校园设计依然会是我们关注的重点之一，因为我们对校园空间的综合性和公共性讨论充满兴趣，同时我们也会尝试其他的类型和设计方向。我认为未来十年建筑行业将会涌现诸多变化和挑战，我们需要更好地回应外部变化，但我们已经在不同规模的设计之间有所积累，这让我们充满信心。

同时，我们也已经拥有了一定的理论工具和实践经验，未来也许会尝试在国际市场上一展身手。我们确实有许多想法，并且已经做好准备迎接下一个挑战！

NS:To be honest, we don’t have a very clear answer yet. The last 10 years for us have been a lot of explorations and in a way different directions, our ultimate goal was to generate a sort of synthesis of all these directions. School will keep being one of our focuses because we enjoy their programmatic complexity, but we will also try other types, other directions. I think in the next 10 years there will be a lot of shifts in the industry. We might have to respond more to what comes from outside and I think there are a lot of challenges coming, but we have been comfortably jumping across scales and across disciplines so I feel confident we will be able to adapt. And perhaps we have learned enough tools to try our luck also in the international market. We certainly have a lot of ideas. We are ready for the next challenges!

▼reMIX 四位合伙人，由左至右分别为：吕守拓、陈忱、Nicola Saladino、Federico Ruberto，Four partners of reMIX, from left to right: Shoutuo Lyu, Chen Chen, Nicola Saladino,Federico Ruberto